2 Timothy 2:23 Have nothing to do with foolish, ignorant controversies; you know that they breed quarrels.
23 τὰς δὲ μωρὰς καὶ ἀπαιδεύτους ζητήσεις παραιτοῦ, εἰδὼς ὅτι γεννῶσιν μάχας·
This is one of those chapters where I could write about several different verses. I chose this one because of a great discussion I had with a commenter last week. It is vitally important that we be careful about our controversies.
There are a lot of dangerous areas with me. First, I'm in seminary and thinking about matters of theology. This is the time when one is forced to think about these matters and start to make decisions about them. Papers are polemic by nature, so it is easy to be in an argumentative mood. I need to be careful about that.
Second, I'm a Calvinist. This is not to say that Arminians have no interest in discussing theology. Far from it. However, for some reason we Calvinists tend to be a little more combative when it comes to these things. We tend not to be afraid of being "jerks for Jesus" because we figure that the important thing is just to get the word out and let God sort everything out. While that is true to a degree, it does not excuse any lack of gentleness nor does it excuse looking for a fight.
Third, I tend to thrive on discussion and argument. I like hashing stuff out with others. I'm not very good at sports, but I still like to compete. This is one area where I can be competitive and often win. However, theology is not a competition.
Ultimately the goal is to show people Christ so that they may enjoy Him. I also want to enjoy Him more. I don't think that foolish controversies add to that. However, we also need to remember that some controversies are vital. The trick is to distinguish which are vital and which can be left with a decision to "agree to disagree." I think we learn that by time in the Word to see what is important to God and by listening to the Spirit as we go about our lives.
Meanderings about my journey with Jesus.
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13 comments:
I love you, brother, and I admire you for your intensity about the scriptures which I also share, but I just have to smile when I see you writing (and presumably believing) "we Calvinists."
What ever became of your appreciation of the verse in first Corinthians (3:4)?
This is yet another angle of what I was trying to convey a few posts ago in our long exchange of comments.
I don't expect you to understand me now, but I hope someday you will. I used to say and write things like "we Orthodox" and feel as though I had behind me a whole slew of awesome theologians whose correct and even infallible understanding somehow supported whatever view I was voicing at the time. But I don't say that anymore. In fact, I am now ashamed of myself and of anyone else who says "we Orthodox."
As I said in one of my recent posts (and was surprised it didn't draw any fire from my co-religionists), "from Christ's point of view, Orthodoxy doesn't even exist." In the same spirit I also venture to say, from Christ's point of view, Calvinism doesn't even exist.
What do we do when we find that the ship we thought we were sailing in evaporates before our eyes and out from under us?
We just walk on water, and trust Jesus.
Oh, I completely understand you. I refer to "we Calvinists" because it is a handy shortcut. It's just like referring to my car as a Honda Civic. When I tell you that I have a black 1999 Honda Civic hatchback you have a pretty good idea of what I drive. Similarly, when I tell you that I'm a Calvinist you understand quite a bit about my theology.
It's merely a shorthand to tell you what I believe about various doctrines. And, as a rule, folks who identify themselves as Calvinist tend to be more theologically pugnacious than others. That is not necessarily a good thing, but that is just a fact.
You write that "from Christ's point of view, Calvinism doesn't even exist," which of course is true to a degree. But what does Christ think of the nature of man? Totally depraved or not? What does Christ think about election? Unconditional or conditional? What does He think about the atonement? Was it universal or particular to the saints? What does He think about His saving grace? Is it resistible or irresistible? What does He think about His elect? Will He keep them to persevere to their death or can they lose their salvation? By identifying myself as a "Calvinist" I merely give a very succinct description of what I believe and, I think, what God reveals through Scripture.
I like the way you list your questions, "But what does Christ think of the nature of man? Totally depraved or not? What does Christ think about election? Unconditional or conditional? What does He think about the atonement? Was it universal or particular to the saints? What does He think about His saving grace? Is it resistible or irresistible? What does He think about His elect? Will He keep them to persevere to their death or can they lose their salvation?"
Why do I like your questions? Because they show me what you're thinking about, and they also show me how far above your thoughts and my thoughts are the thoughts of Jesus who, though we can put our questions into his mouth, will never ask them in reality. Our questions are bound up in our partiality, our mortality, our speculation and our fear. We ask them always out of self-interest, hoping to justify ourselves, even while we claim to be disinterestedly seeking the truth. The only certainty I have about our questionings, yours and mine, is that they are the product of our hopeless and self-unredeemable depravity, our rebellious willfulness. What I know for certain is that they are the fire that ignites the whole wheel of God's creation, desiring to pull it all down on top of ourselves in chaos and ruin. Face it, we are brats, and the depth of our utter blasphemy proves only one thing: That Christ who came to call sinners to repentance, the dead to life, and the damned to salvation, has performed an inconceivably mighty feat, and all without our help, without our even wanting it! All our questioning and travail of self-justification does nothing to add to what He has done for us, but instead, only delays our reconciliation.
"What does Christ think of..." is dragging Him down to the level of our partiality, mortality, speculation and fear. His humanity, though, is the new humanity of the New Adam, into which He is transforming those whom the Father has drawn to Him. His humanity is not ours as it is, but ours as it will be after He has transformed us into the image of Himself, the New Adam.
Jesus Christ is Θεανθρωπος, the God-Man. Would you make Him a Calvinist, so you can include Him when you say "we..."?
Romanos,
I thank you not to put motivations into my heart. I ask these questions because I want to know God better. I believe that these get to the very nature of who man is and who God is. I also believe that they are revealed in His Word.
One constant theme I find in Scripture is that God is extremely jealous for His name. That means that it is incumbent upon us to know Him through His Word. He reveals what He wants us to know of Him through His Word. Is that a complete picture of God? Of course not because He is infinite and we will always be finite.
Nevertheless, these are questions I ask not to justify myself. I study Scripture to know God better and, consequently, to help me know how to live.
We can know what Christ thinks when we read Scripture. If we are in Him then we have the Holy Spirit to illuminate the text for us.
Let me ask you this -- why else do you think God chose to give us such a big book that we call the Bible? What are we to make of Paul's didactic writings if not to learn knowable facts about God?
Here is a great example of what I'm talking about: http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/kevindeyoung/2010/08/24/need-help-know-god/
Once again, you're not hearing me, brother. You're not even responding to what I am saying. But I will respond to you, as best I can.
"Nevertheless, these are questions I ask not to justify myself. I study Scripture to know God better and, consequently, to help me know how to live."
Amen. Yes, that's why I study scripture too.
"We can know what Christ thinks when we read Scripture. If we are in Him then we have the Holy Spirit to illuminate the text for us."
That's a funny way of putting it, to "know what Christ thinks" but yes, the text is only understandable by those who have the Holy Spirit, in other words, those who are Christians and whose intention is to believe what God declares is true.
"Let me ask you this -- why else do you think God chose to give us such a big book that we call the Bible? What are we to make of Paul's didactic writings if not to learn knowable facts about God?"
You shouldn't have to ask me these questions. Your "why else" implies that I don't believe in the authority and uniqueness of the Bible. The holy apostle Paul's "didactic" writings are in fact delivered to us as living words, but not knives with which we can chop up the Body of Christ.
It's the near-sightedness imposed on you by your sectarianism that I am trying to find corrective lenses for. But I am trying to do this in a non-offensive way, perhaps an impossible task.
When we challenge a Muslim on any aspect of their religious beliefs or hold their "prophet" up to inspection, they become very defensive. Obviously their "god" needs to be protected.
Our God and our Bible, "the only divine scripture on earth" as I call it in my blog and elsewhere, don't need to be defended. Light is already obvious as it shines in the darkness. But if we try to possess that Light in a lantern made of darkened glass, its brightness will too be diminished and we will have to protect that lantern. This is what I am urging people precisely NOT to do: cover up the Light with a denominational arrogance, and call it "what Christ thinks."
Grace and peace, brother.
I will try not to write again, except for friendship's sake.
Romanos,
What is there to respond to? You are telling me that it is not worthwhile to divide over doctrinal differences. I have agreed with you in the past and I still do, to a point. There are some core convictions that are important and others that are secondary or tertiary.
The Reformation happened for a reason. The Roman Catholic Church had perverted the gospel and still perverts it to this day. That is why I think it is vitally important to make the distinctions between their version of how one is justified and what I consider to be the biblical version.
So while I am a Calvinists I consider many Arminians to be my brothers in Christ, though I think that they misunderstand God and His sovereignty. I believe that baptism is meant to be done by immersion with an understanding of the gospel on the part of the one baptized, but I still consider many Presbyterians to be my brothers in Christ.
I am in seminary which means I am being trained for pastoral service. Like it or not, I need to make decisions about where I stand on several issues because to ignore them would lead to chaos in whatever part of the catholic church I serve. You seem to think me more divisive than I really am, but that's OK. We are much closer than you think we are.
Here is a seasoned pastor putting this better than either your or I could. What do you think of this?
http://theresurgence.com/what_it_means_to_be_truly_reformed
I think this is what you're getting at. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Gently, brother, gently...
I know we are very close.
Grace, and peace.
These dialogs encourage me because they tell me that perhaps I am developing more of a pastor's heart than I once had. While it is true individually that differences are not that important, I think some of them are vitally important when it comes to people's souls. As they asked Peter, "What must we do to be saved?" There is an answer to that question. It is vitally important that we understand it lest we go down the road of the Universalists who make everyone comfortable on the road to eternal damnation.
I hope you are developing a pastor's heart. But please remember, the shepherd doesn't argue his sheep into the fold or into following him. He commands them, and he loves them, and thus through rigour mixed with gentleness, he proves himself faithful to his charge.
I have little fear for you to turn into a universalist through gradual erosion of your zeal. Nor am I a universalist, but a bible-believing disciple and co-laborer in the Lord's vineyard, which is this world.
Just never forget that though you may act as a shepherd, you too are still a sheep of His pasture, and never lord over anyone put in your charge, lest for pride's sake you accept homage like a hireling.
I am well-aware that you cannot argue anyone into the kingdom. However, I also do not think that you can bring anyone into the kingdom with a false gospel.
I have experienced firsthand the dangers of shepherds who think that they are no longer sheep. It's not pretty and I do not want to go there.
Here's another great article that pertains to our discussion:
http://www.reformation21.org/blog/2010/08/will-the-real-christian-life-a.php
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